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« Bike to Work Day is Rolling Up | Main | Queen of the Mt. Vernon Trail »

May 07, 2008

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Jim Stone

Pictou: Railroads can move a ton of freight 423 miles, not one mile, on a gallon of diesel - generally about 3 times more efficient than trucks. Railroads' efficiency at moving freight is grossly underappreciated, and the country would certainly benefit from some targeted public investment in the freight rail network.

On the other hand, most people probably wildly overestimate the fuel efficiency of passenger rail, which is typically about the same as private automobiles on a per-passenger basis. The problem with passenger rail is that trains are optimized for carrying heavy loads and the "freight" on a passenger train doesn't weigh very much.

BeyondDC

The comment wasn't regarding who pays, only the amount paid. Those issues are not the same. Nor are the issues of being on a master plan and how long it takes to make it through the federal environmental review process once a project is put forward for actual construction. As I said, the delays associated with the ICC were locally generated. Once it made it to the federal level of review, it was very much fast-tracked.

These are undeniable facts. They have nothing to do with bias. Regardless of where the money is coming from, the Silver Line and the ICC *do* cost about the same per mile in terms of capital construction, and regardless of how many decades it took the ICC to get through Maryland's COUNTY and STATE-level planning, it *was* fast-tracked through the FEDERAL process.

DCDOG

BeyondDC (whatever that means) seems to forget that much of the cost of the ICC, a truly high-tech road that includes many environmental enchancements, will be paid for by rather high tolls by the people who use it. The Silver Line is being build largely on land that has been donated by the Airports Authority and paid for, in part, by tolls or taxes by people who drive the TOll Road and may not even use it. After being on the Master Plan for more than 50 years before getting its start hardly qualifies the ICC as being fast-tracked and shows the real bias of this responder.

BeyondDC

No, the calcs don't include any of those things. And *even so* they're not true. Eldridge is just wrong on that point.

The ICC (highway) and the Silver Line (Metro) have very similar costs per mile. $174 million / mile for the ICC and $181 million / mile for Silver Line Phase I. That's a difference of about 4%, and it doesn't take into account that vehicles are included in the cost of the Silver Line but not the ICC.

MetroRail is basically comparable to an interstate highway, light rail is basically comparable to parkways or very large arterials (think Fairfax County Pkwy), and streetcars are basically comparable to normal arterial roads.

The problem is NOT that transit costs more; it's that the way the funding tables are set up there's lots and lots and lots of money available for roads and very little (comparatively) available for transit.

Again I'll throw out the ICC as an example. Yeah, it's extremely controversial, but all the controversy is at the local level. When MD decided to build it once and for all the Feds didn't get in the way. They didn't demand value engineering or round after round after round of user projections like they did for the Silver Line. In fact, the ICC was fast-tracked through the federal approval process in almost no time at all. Compare that to the Silver Line, which as we all know has been run through the gauntlet. The Silver Line is almost universally supported and it came this close to being denied funding; the ICC is supported by a much more slim majority, but its funding was never once in question.

Fact is, if you want to build a highway in this country the money is relatively easy to get. If you want to build a transit line, you're put through a much more stringet process.

That funding system is one of a thousand tacit subsidies for the suburban lifestyle in this country. That so many people live in suburbs isn't a function of the free market, it's a function of layer after layer of regulation at every level of government making it easy to live in suburbs and hard to live big cities or small towns. The fact that so many suburbanites seem to wish they lived in small towns should be proof that something is up.

Pictou

"The "problem" here is that transit, especially heavy rail like Metro, tends to cost a lot more per mile than roads."

What? Is that true? What is the cost per passenger mile? If a family is able to reduce the number of their cars by one, how does that affect the cost? Does that include the value of the real estate? Roads use a lot more than trains and trains can be put underground or built over. Energy use? The Freight railroads say they can move one ton one mile with one gallon of diesel.

Somehow I don't believe your premiss. I suspect it is how the calculation is made, what variables are used, and what assumptions are made that makes the difference.

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